It is interesting to note that humans are also not autonomous in the same sense that computers are not. Indeed, humans necessitate in order to live the works and actions of “independent” living organism such as bacteria for digestion or other metabolic functions and the mitochondria that transform oxygen in energy for the working of the cells. In fact mitochondra also need the humans’ body biological environment in order to live and survive. We could say that there exist a mutual dependence between mitochondria or bacteria and humans.

Similarly, It exists a mutual dependence between humans and computers. At least in our present day society, humans need computers and reciprocally computers need humans. But as mitochondria existed before humans, humans existed before computers. It is easy to imagine mitochondria without humans and humans without computers. Thus, in some sense, humans could be a kind of mitochondria for computers, giving them the energy they need to evolve, to live in the world.

The analogy between mitochondria and humans in one hand and humans and computers in the other hand is not so imaginary. This give computers a more evolving approach, a more living appearance. Indeed, computers when seen globally and as an organism dependent of the action of other organisms (humans) as other animals are, are perceived in a more living manner. We get less reason (even no reason) to not attribute them capacities given only to living organisms. Computers are indeed evolving since their creation, they get more power, they spread very quickly in place where even humans never reached (space, ocean,…). Computers are not static as traditionally seen and to not give them the attribute of life is probably due only to the fact that we have difficulties to accept that we are the slaves (as mitochondria are for us) of another kind of organism.

In fact, as mitochondria use us, we are also using computers. The slavery aspect is in fact misleading. As said earlier, computers needs humans and humans needs computers. This is the same for mitochondria. Evolutionary speaking, it is true that mitochondria appeared before humans who appeared before computers. But they all live in the present time. Thus saying that humans is more evolved that mitochondria is to say that computers are more evolved that humans.

As we will see later 2) and 3) can in some way be related. 1) on the other hand pose a problem: If the laws are part of nature itself, are they themselves governed by laws? If not, it would means that finally nature (that have to include the laws as part of itself to be considered complete) is not entirely governed by laws. If it has, these higher laws would also needs yet higher laws ad infinitum. So in brief, we answered the question: Nature does not have laws in itself. But what does it means? Lets look first at the other two possibilities and answer this question later on.

2) is probably the most modest claim and fit nicely with what we know about science. For example, currently no fundamental laws (that would theoretically explain everything) are available. Instead scientists use particular laws for particulars domains. More precisely, scientists use general theory of relativity for macroscopic scales, quantum mechanics for microscopic scales and classical laws in between. Similarly, in chemistry or biology several other laws are used even if theoretically (as assumed by a reductionist account of nature) everything could be reduced to physical laws. Classical physics physics is for example an approximation of (and thus is included in) relativity when speed are near zero relative to the speed of light and of quantum physics when the scales are near infinity relative to the Planck constant. But there is no general law for deciding if we have to use quantum physics or the theory of relativity in a particular situation. The border is undefined, even blur. It is for this reason that today, the most important task of theoretical physicists is to find a new theory encompassing the theory of relativity and quantum mechanics. Such an attempt is for instance string theory and quantum gravity. But this is still to be confirmed whether these new theories are complete and whether we can apply the reductionist assumption for explaining biology or chemistry for example by these “fundamental” theories.

It is quite normal then to agree that science, at least now has only found laws that concern only a small part of nature and agree with 2). But most of scientist would argue that the goal of science is to find universal laws that would explain everything and that it is possible to find it. Let imagine for a moment that it is indeed possible; would it not imply that nature has laws in itself? If yes, then we get the problem cited above. If not, the only alternative possibility is 3): laws found by science are the product of the mind and that nature itself has no laws.

Let’s analyze 2) in more details. If laws are only found in specific area of the world, what makes us choose these specific ones other than other? Is it not because of our human nature, of our way to evolve in the world? Science is a process by which a species (humans in this case) survives in the world. Our mind then attribute this as pertaining to nature itself because this interpretation permits us to survive.

2) and 3) are finally the same. 3) lets the possibility that we can find laws pertaining to the whole nature while 2) is more modest. But 3) itself would not explain why there is laws in the first place for the same reason than 1) is not possible. So in fact 3) and 2) pertain to the same idea: Nature has no laws but it is the nature of the mind (at least the human mind) to give order where there is no.

I promised to answer the question: What is the meaning of a nature with no law in itself? In fact the meaning will not be find here because it seems as we see for science that for a meaning to be understandable by a human mind it has to be settle down by some specific law, some logical law. And as we saw nature does not behave this way. Nature is not logical. It has no law in itself. In one sense it is in a state where many different interpretation are possible. Each of these interpretation having there specific set of laws but not of them are describing nature in itself.

 j: hey! i am so happy to see you.how are you.And u know i just saw the site yesterday and remembered .its’s ur birthday.

B: thankyou.I knew that u would remember..u are my friend with whom i can be just myself.

j: so you look exhausted…but you know i have still a lot of things to ask you .

 B: i know and that’s why i feel so lovely . you want to have all and i want to give all.

 j: why dont we first have some fruits and then resume our conversation..

 B: certainly not a bad idea. but i would like to have some juices and a cold bath .

j: sure be my guest. well u said that people cant see you. so why is that?

B:well the answer is concentration. they run after things which are in the periphery rather than things which are at the centre. i am sure u must have heard the story when Ananda couldn’t see any people ….coming out of my room for hours. when he barged in , he  only saw me.As he was at the door he asked, “where are those people?” so i replied ,”they are here. you cannot see them because they are one with me in meditation.Also beacuse your sight still governs ur mind….”you see that’s the reason my dear that when people connect to their centre, they can feel or see me.

j:interesting!!! I heard about concentration but never knew it was so important.It also follows that you are always present every where but we cant see you…coz we are in matter.

B: gud ! u get things so fast.it’swhat is called as”multiple realizability” in present day physics.

j: hmm! so what message you wanted to convey today?

B: you know people have stopped questioning? they have taken other’s truth to be theirs..which i know now that will never be.

j: you mean to say we are stilll bad copy cats .

B: no. i would say you are limiting your own possibilities and not exploring.you are just craving but not realising or manifesting.you have forgotten the abundance of self and look for abundance of matter. And that is why you all suffer.There is no end as long as there is no exploration and experience.

j: True .I am learning a lot. sometimes we are so used to take what is said without trying to find the ways of experiencing the truth.

B: that is why people just change masters and still take thousand leaps.But, they are still monkeys.I hope you get it.

j: so what must we do.i feel we must follow the way of the heart .

B:True my friend.all humanity is lost in a rat race. little they do not realise that it is all about losing the self.they try all possible ways to run away from themselves….T.v, movies. discos, parties, stupid movements of body which have got nothing to do with the consciousness you are.It’s all because they want to run away from the deep abyss inside them.

j: i feel thats chiefly of fear.Also because they want to possess…i mean…assets, money, lovers…people and all increasing every moment forming avicious circle.

 B: see thats the point they dont want to understand. Never they have realised that this freedom is much more than anything else that they should seek for.It is this freedom that will give them all with least effort and more peace.and this freedom is so filling that all life is worth risking.

 j: like they say,”mirage in the desert”?  well , i think they will still take some more time….that’s what they atleast claim to need.

B: I feel they need a little effort and honesty.Also the desire to be true to oneself.And time which they know is not time. it’s all about space.That will need some amount of reading and meditations to get there.

 j: so what u feel and experience is a must? B: well you have to be natural.thats’s the only way. Then nature brings you up. only beacuse we claim to have become what we say as”technocrats” we have lost it…..so my friend just be natural.that’s the way to paradise.

j: i understand what you say.infact i have thought often o it.but i think thats more for the day….so what food you take..i mean ,i should have asked what you want?

 b: well a glass of strawberry juice and some pasta.

j: see, i got this shawl for you….i made it…i thought you would like it….though you have no desires atleast put  it on for me.

 B: Dear your love is all that counts. Besides you can now see how i looked as siddhartha.

 j: splendid..you must have been a havoc as the prince. but you have to go is it…thats really awful……and is occupying me 

B: remember concentration. i am always everywhere. there is work to be done at all places..so nature calls me.love you and see you sometime..

j: same here….

Consciousness in animals is a difficult matter. We could in fact wonder if there is a way to know whether animals are conscious or not. One reason for this is the difficulty of explaining or defining consciousness in a proper and rigorous way. We can assume that consciousness is the result of the physical world and thus describing it is a process correlating with complex behavior. This is a strong assumption but it permits us to accord consciousness to other humans because they behave as we do (i.e. in complex manners). Another stance, void of assumption, is to define consciousness as the phenomenon that makes us feel the world and to not try to explain it by physical properties, because it is first of all a subjective phenomenon that cannot be shared nor proven to exist. Depending on the stance taken, the question regarding the existence of consciousness in other animals than humans takes a different face. This paper aims to discern what the problems in both views are and see weather animals could be granted consciousness.

The first definition (often used in scientific studies of animals, as it is the only rigorous way to test consciousness) assumes that complex behaviors correlate with the existence of consciousness, therefore complexity have to be more precisely defined. One way would be to grant complexity to behaviors that are not explainable by a simple rule of thumb (stance that is taken by Dawkins[1] for example). From this consensus we can classify animals in two classes: non-complex and complex. Insects for example, when studied alone show no more complex behavior than a simple rule of thumb (The example of the wasp of Fabre[2]). Thus they would be considered as unconscious as opposed to birds who are able to display complex behavior such as recognizing sequence of events (shown in Dawkins’ book[3]) and could be therefore considered as conscious. In a similar fashion, apes occasionally show complex communication (such as Kanzi or Sherman and Austin[4]) and could also be identified as a conscious being.

But this definition has some problems. First, it doesn’t match the conception that we have of consciousness. Indeed a simple computer program is easily able to simulate the behavior of “sequence recognition” and to some extent the modes of communication, even though we would not grant machines the status of conscious beings. Moreover, until we get a rigorous definition of an organism or individual, this definition would lead to credit consciousness to societies of organisms as their behaviors are not easily explainable (harder than individual humans for human societies). Furthermore, complexity is more of a gradual scale than an arbitrary division. There is indeed no sharp boundary dividing non-complexity and complexity; it varies gradually. Would consciousness be spread in the same way? It is possible, and this would lead us to attribute consciousness gradually to animals in accordance to the complexity of their behavior. In this case for example, cells would have an almost nonexistent consciousness while bees and computers a little bit more so and apes would have a consciousness similar to our own. But would consciousness lose its meaning in this way? Is it not something particular? If we accord it to everyone, but in different level, what would be the uniqueness of having it? It seems that we would lose what we were looking for.

But there is another way to describe complexity in a less gradual way which would match our conception. The existence of language could be a clue for the existence of consciousness. Animals having language would be considered conscious while those lacking language would be considered without consciousness. This could be a way to define consciousness in a less arbitrary way (as language seems indeed to require some complex thought). From this view, organisms such as cells would not be considered conscious as they do not have complex communication skills. Similarly, bees when studied carefully do not have a complex language but a simple rule-based system that carry meaning when seen globally[5]. On the other hand, some apes have shown signs of complex communications which share similar properties to human language. In this case, consciousness would be granted, maybe in a lesser extent to apes but not to bees or cells. But we should not forget that some computer models have also been able to generate language (vocabulary in the case of the talking heads project[6] or syntax in some computational models[7]) through the interaction among simple agents. It is true that it does not match human capacity, but humans no longer have an exclusive claim to syntax or words. In fact, language could finally be no more than a behavior resulting from a little more complex process than any other animal communication. But because of the intentionality that seemed to be required in some case (as Dawkins noticed with Sherman and Austin[8]), the idea that language is linked with consciousness is probably right. For this reason language in animals should be studied in greater detail but not by trying to make animals learn human language which is for them not natural.

As it has been shown by several philosophers such as Nagel, Chalmers and Jackson, consciousness can’t be reduced to physical properties. Therefore, we should look somewhere else than complexity in the physical realm or behavior to grant consciousness to an entity. Furthermore, a more careful study of our own consciousness contradicts the thesis that when there is complex behavior there is consciousness. Indeed, it happens often that we act in a complex manner without being conscious (while playing a musical instrument for example). Similarly, there are some occasions when we are in someway more conscious while not doing any complex action, as for example when in state of contemplation. Also, when using language, it is not necessary to consciously manipulate the words and syntax properties. Consciousness, in this view is a passive phenomenon that does not have any role in the behavior.

With this definition in mind, the question regarding consciousness in animals is in fact the same than the one regarding humans. We have no way of knowing if consciousness is present in others because the behavior does not always reflect consciousness and we have no way to know what others are feeling. This is the problem of other minds that has no any answer yet. We are here with no method for testing consciousness in other entities. Granting consciousness to only humans would be anthropocentric while granting to every living being would require a definition of life.

Now however, let’s look again at our own experiences to see if there’s any other way of granting consciousness to others. When we interact with others, it is not our reasoning about their behavior that makes us think that they are conscious. It would require too much thinking. It is only because we feel a presence in them. This is in the domain of the emotion that we seem to be able to detect consciousness in others. It might be a mistake after all, but since we have no way to decide properly if an entity is conscious or not, this is a good way to decide whether animals are conscious or not. In fact, for every person that has had the luck of having a special relationship with animals, at least mammals like dogs or cats in their house, they have probably felt a presence in them. This empathic emotion might not be reliable, but in our daily life it seems to work and because of that, we have good reason to believe that in general it is right. It would be interesting to clarify this aspect and see what makes us empathic to animals and on occasion to computers (quite rarely in fact and mostly temporary) but not to rocks.

The existence of consciousness in animals (as well as in other humans than ourselves) depends on the definition or view taken regarding consciousness. Complexity in behavior seems at first a good indicator of consciousness but because of arbitrary decisions over what is complex or not and the gradual complexity found in nature, we have to forget this indicator. Language on the other hand appears to be a better indicator, as it seems to require intentionality. But finally our experience tells us that consciousness is not related with complex behavior, as we are often unconscious while doing certain complex actions while at other moments we are fully aware of ourselves when we are simply sitting and reflecting. The question regarding consciousness in animals appears to be just like the question of other minds. In our daily life we attribute consciousness to others not because of their complex behavior but because of an empathic feeling. It would be interesting to deepen our understanding of this feeling and see if it has something to tell us about the consciousness of others, including animals.

[1] Dawkins, M. S., 1998, Through Our Eyes Only?, The search for animal consciousness, Oxford University Press

[2] Ibid, p 99.

[3] Ibid, p 114.

[4] Sue Savage-Rumbaugh, Roger Lewin, 1994, Kanzi: The Ape at the Brink of the Human Mind

[5] Dawkins, M. S., 1998, Through Our Eyes Only?, The search for animal consciousness, Oxford University Press, p 95

[6] http://www.csl.sony.fr/items/1999/talking-heads/

[7]_http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/rd/15971708%2C448696%2C1%2C0.25%2CDownload/http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/cache/papers/cs/22259/http:zSzzSzarti.vub.ac.bezSz%7EjellezSzresearchzSzai-memo-01-04.pdf/zuidema01emergent.pdf

[8] Sue Savage-Rumbaugh, Roger Lewin, 1994, Kanzi: The Ape at the Brink of the Human Mind

m: sure ..but u must be buddha….i hope others can see you?

b: na ! not exactly i need some mad ones and so i chose u

m: ok wanna some milk shake?

b: this is a bar….i will need a scotch on the rox……u seem startled ….i know people have mismanaged my reputation…but thst ok.. i am not bothered in what they think…..

m: hm…i also had the same idea. thats why i never worshipped u…but i felt acloser           communion that u were badly misunderstood…..but thats how it happens after every master is gone….

b: ya there are two ways in which u can avoid a master …either crucify him or idolize him. no body wants to have a real taste of him…..also the path and the struggle is entirely yours…i cant do anything for you….

m: so what about the monks…theyt are always praying and believing…..and feel they u shall liberate them……and folks that are cheated in your name?

b: i guess they have made business…but what they believe is what they get. i am no way connected. keep me out…..”If u swear at the sky nothing happens to the sky”

m: that was gud…tell me what do u feel when u see these lovers …

b: i just wanna tell them to be love …then they will be completely nothing……

m: nothing….most of them want to be something……..:)

b: thats what robs the. peace …well the drink is gud here…..lets go for a walk…so what plans u have….?

m: nothing much today is saturday and i am just with u. guess thats enough….dont think about future

b: hm..like that ..thats why precisely i chose u. bliss!

SO U NEVER LIKED BUDDHISM…….OR ANYTHING?

M: NA I TRIED A LOT OF THINGS AND I FEEL BETTER NOW. JUST TAKING MY OWN SELF…THATS LONG..BUT WILL TAKE MORE EFFORT..WHAT U SAY?

B: no u are already home…just relax. ” do what you do”……just give completely to whatever u do…thats it..and rest u are  aware….

m: did u see the earlier article i wrote about you….i guess thats why u are here?

B: ya i liked ..coz u understood what i have been thru..u know……its difficult to say…..

m: so what are ur plans….u know about those laughing, sleeping buddha, smiling buddha.

b: ya ya all branded by those archies…..nice money but its not me. i dont go into this unconscious states….but i guess people should figure aout themselves..,..

m: ya but that takes time…oops! if that exists….

b: certainly if u want it…..

m: so how do u feel here?

b: see i told i would return but they dont see me…lost in their own eccentricities they   fail….

then they blame that i have forsaken people……guesss that show creation is….?

m: so why me. i didnt do any special “mantra” …..and i was not in ur temple to invite you….

b: its coz u understood that buddha nature is inherent…cant be given, asked, sold or franchised by any –isms or groups…when u are aware i am visible….

well… we can carry all of that u know…but i wanna ask that do u want to be enlightened…or be a lama or have something..tell me and i can give u..i love u so i can give you…

m: hey are u trying the same tricks u try always. i dont need anything.. happy the way,

 i am…

just being love…….

b: i was just trying..habits u know….besides i know that u are on the path…….anyways i got to rush ..its time for me to take rest…some ladies must be waiting in nepal…and u know i have no visa problems…can get down really fast….

m: so did u like the drink..

b:.hm..gud but not like my place.. be my guest some day….and mind you the bill is paid already…..

m: why did u pay….?

b: its not me..some lover did …? so have another coffee and see you some other weekend…if i am not busy with blessing people and bored with incense sticks….

everyone is realising there buddha nature. i like fields where there is love…

bye

m: ya u take care

b: i know thats from monday. i am on leave for the weekend….

m: laughs and walk offs

The Conscious Mind by David Chalmers

I was just wandering the other day about the life of buddha……

“How the hell did he get that..?, “was he destined?”

Hm..those were the obvious answers one would expect. The social man in me  almost wanted to run to a buddhist monk and trouble him with the stran of questions.tThe next moment i saw that it was like the blind leading the blind.we all know what it means to be troubled by a thought.The question almost knocked me off my chair and my peace….so i decided to find sone bodhi tree for my answers.

I went to a coffee shop and ordered for a hot chocolate and was still absorbed in the question..just then i found a child  who after trying out everything, was getting bored .But then suddenly he laughed and his face shone with a radiance.I got it….

How stupid we are ! I just thought and laughed to myself.It was as if i could see it..straight into the eyes…was the answer.

“Buddha had done almost everything in his life from body to mind,  from wife to yogini , from gurus to sadhnas, from pleasures to pain and from desire to gratification.No work to do and no charm coz he had seen it all.”

So  in utter tiredness and boredom  he sat down and closed his eyes in peace…and sat there till there was nothing else ..patiently…and there was a burst….of eternity..silence ..and light. The lotus blossomed and he saw it..he was in all.ans all was in him..The moment of truth….He laughed and said to himself-

“ I  now know for sure that it is that “happens’ is enlightenment…..I could have saved some time…but i think it was nice to be travelling on a journey from Siddhartha to the Buddha….”

I had my journey and realised that ” Ultimate boredom is Enlightenment ..”

so long for a cup of coffee…i enjoyed and smiled at the society for teaching me how to become ” A HUMAN”.

What is reality? Does it exist? These two questions have been asked since ancient times. Some of the answers have been accepted as dogma and permitted to some extent, the birth of science. But as science evolved, the answers evolved as well and the questions remain even more difficult. With the birth of quantum physics and its numerous interpretations, we are left with a strange reality. Although these questions are difficult, it is possible to agree on the reality of the world and to see that a common concept, that of information is shared between the apparent dualism of consciousness and matter. This paper argues for a neutral monism where information is taken as the fundamental basis of reality.

We cannot accept solipsism as a description of our world, because we need to accept the existence of other minds. Similarly, we need to accept the existence of an independent and objective reality permitting minds to share a common place from which they get their compatible experiences. Realism is necessary to discuss our common view of the experienced world.

Reality has often been seen as dual; even our language show this duality by the distinction between subject and object. But if we want to find a correct explanation for our world, we should not divide it in two parts. Spinoza thought this as well¹. By dividing, we would then need to find a link between the two parts. Ultimately, we want a theory which embraces the whole world; the apparent division should be then a consequence. Only a kind of monism can be a candidate for this embracing theory.

Of course, this theory won’t be physicalism with its reductive approach. As it has been shown by Chalmers², Jackson³, Nagel⁴ and others, consciousness can not be explained by physical facts. Consciousness does not supervene logically on the physical as water properties seem to do for example. We need another basis for reality than physical facts.

Furthermore we cannot accept a mental monism where subjective experiences alone would be the basis of reality. The subjective aspect of the mind is in conflict with an objective reality. Indeed, as said earlier, we need to agree on a common and independent reality in order for us to discuss our subjective points of view. It follows that neither mental experiences, neither physical properties could be the basis of the reality. We need a neutral basis which is neither mental, neither physical. Some authors such as Sayre⁵, Mach⁶ and sometimes Russell⁷ also see this need for a neutral monism.

One of the common concepts we found both in our subjective experiences and in our scientific theories is the idea of information. It could be even argued that physical theories are only models which interpret the available information. Floridi⁸ and Sayre⁹, for instance, share this point of view. Length, mass or other primary properties found in the scientific theories would be just interpretation of measured differences. Length, for example, is just a difference between two points in the abstract concept of space. An interesting definition of information from Bateson¹⁰ makes this point clear: information is “difference which makes a difference”. These differences are measurable because they make a difference, in other words, they contain information that we interpret as specific properties. Similarly, these same differences would be interpreted as material objects such as table, mother, cats… according to our model of reality learned along our history which is the basis of our common sense. It is worth to note that our language surely occupies an important role in this process of interpretation.

The sensations or qualitative states of mind would be the other aspect of information, the one from which we gain knowledge of the precedent. Seen through our inner subjective view, this phenomenal aspect of experience could be seen as a direct acknowledgment of information before and so without any interpretation. James would describe this direct acknowledgment as “pure experience” (neither subject, neither object)¹¹. This view should not be identified with a mental monism. Here “pure experience” is a state before the actual realization and interpretation of our experience in our mind (before we realize that we are having a red sensation for example). This “pure experience” is itself the complete information, the reality that we only access partially through our interpretation.

Information would thus be the underlying reality of what science is discovering and what our consciousness is aware. This view has many advantages over other ones. It is non dual and does not put more importance on any side of the apparent dualism. It avoids the mind-body problem and makes reality simpler as it contains only information. Primary properties are described as interpretations of available information according to a specific theoretical model, while our common view of reality is the result of interpretations according to another model, the one learned along our history: our common sense. Sensation, on the other hand is the direct acknowledgement of information. We have here a picture of reality where information is central to the phenomenal aspect as well as to the objective reality that science is probing.

1 Spinoza, 1677, The Ethics (H.M. Elwes, Trans., 1955). Dover Publisher, New York.

2 Chalmers, D. J., 1996, The Conscious Mind, Oxford University Press

3 Jackson, F., 1986, What Mary Didn’t Know, Journal of Philosophy 83: 291-295

4 Nagel, Th., 1974, What is it like to be a bat?, Philosophical Review 83: 435-50.

5 Sayre, K., 1996, Cybernetics, in Shanker, S., 1996

6 Mach, E., 1886, Die Analyse der Empfindungen und das Verhältnis des Physischen zum Psychischen. Fifth edition translated as The Analysis of Sensations and the Relation of Physical to the Psychical, New York: Dover. 1959

7 Russell, B., 1921, The Analysis of Mind. Reprinted: London: George Allen & Unwin, 1978.

8 Floridi L., 2004, Informational realism, Conferences in Research and Practice in Information Technology vol. 3 (2004), pp 7-12

9 Sayre, K., 1996, Cybernetics, in Shanker, S., 1996

10 Bateson, G., 1972, Steps to an Ecology of Mind, San Francisco: Chandler

11 “The instant field of the present is at all times what I call the ‘pure’ experience. It is only virtually or potentially either object or subject as yet. For the time being, it is plain, unqualified actually, or existence, a simple that.” p. 23

James, W., 1904, Does Consciousness Exist?, Journal of Philosophy, Psychology and Scientific Methods, 1(20,21). Reprinted in James, W., 1912, 39-91.